Comments on The General Blog of Crime: Zimbardo

Good posts. Heroworkshop - I'm glad for your cont...

2008-03-03T08:21:00.000-05:00

Good posts. Heroworkshop - I'm glad for your contribution and clarification. I applaud your wishful thinking as I think in similar ways. I don't think morality is as grey as most everyone makes it out to be, especially at a fundamental level (such as in bullying). ShockProf - I'm glad you brought up the Milgram experiments because I hadn't thought of them. I still think it's a moral issue when subjects are willing to continue to inflict pain and dismiss the powerful misgivings they are feeling - all in the name of submitting to authority. Tied into my moral compass concept is the notion of allowing that compass to shape/direct your behavior (and not just your thoughts). Anyway, all of these factors (deindividuation, morality, blind submission rather than respectful questioning of the purpose of certain actions) are relevant when thinking about concentration camp atrocities and Abu Ghraib and bullying and many other issues. Welcome to the murky quagmire that is social science.

I've always been fascinated by Zimbardo and Milgra...

2008-03-02T22:16:00.000-05:00

I've always been fascinated by Zimbardo and Milgram's work on obedience. It is true that good people will do bad things (or fail to act), but I'm not sure how much of that we can attribute to having a strong "moral compass".

Would most of the subjects in these experiments claim to have a strong moral compass? Probably. The real behavior under study for both of these researchers was the tendency for people to follow orders. In fact, Milgram's interest in the subject began with the Holocaust--the observation that Jewish 'guards' in concentration camps committed cruel acts against their fellow Jews who were imprisoned. Were they doing that just to survive, or do human beings discard (or ignore) their moral compass when acting under orders? Perhaps being ordered to do a bad thing relieves them of responsibility for the bad acts in some way (like Dr. Huginkiss, I wish I could remember more of that from my undergrad Abnormal Psych course).

In fact, in Milgram's experiment some of the subjects were quite upset that they were hurting someone with electric shocks (they weren't REALLY shocking anyone, but they thought they were). Of course, they kept administering the electric shocks, but they felt horrible about it.

In the prison context (both Zimbardo's experiment and Abu Ghraib), there may be some truth to the "moral compass" argument, since the guards seemed to be enjoying administering the punishments to the prisoners. This may also be confounded with lack of adequate training and insufficient guidance.

Just my $.02...

I actually am not all that familiar with Zimbardo'...

2008-03-02T19:31:00.000-05:00

I actually am not all that familiar with Zimbardo's work or with the Stanford prison experiment (and I was an undergad psych major -- for shame!!), but I do know that he was on The Colbert Report the other night to promote his new book, "The Lucifer Effect". Check out the clip here:

Zimbardo on Colbert

"I teach Sunday School, motherf***er!"

LOL!! [sigh] My love for Colbert knows no bounds...

I'm working on the curriculum that Phil is pluggin...

2008-03-01T17:53:00.000-05:00

I'm working on the curriculum that Phil is plugging. I think perhaps you misunderstood what the "heroism" is that we're hoping to teach kids.

It is exactly as you say - the moral compass and the courage to act. That's what I'm aiming to impart on the students. When a situation calling for heroic action occurs, there are three options, do nothing, join in making the situation worse, or do the heroic thing.

If we can convince a generation (wishful thinking, but why not?) of the need to act in the moral way, then things like Abu Ghraib and bullying in schools will be reduced immensely.

So, thinking about what is right and what is wrong while understanding the need for courage in the face of danger (mental, physical, social) can certainly counter situational influences.

Hopefully you can see my point.